Have any of you heard about this bill that was introduced by republican Bob Thorpe in Arizona recently? If not…see what you think about all it entails. Make sure and read to the end to see where he’s going to amend his bill as well.

There’s one thing about all of this…you can be sure the leftists in Arizona aren’t going to like this one little bit, neither will any of the other leftist-loons all across this country either. We all know it goes against their grain in every way possible. For some of you here, it may go against your grain as well…if so shout out about why it would. And for those of you who support it, please do the same.

This is via TB:

A bill making its way through the Arizona state legislature would require public high school students to swear an oath to defend the Constitution before they receive their diplomas.

The legislation was introduced Tuesday by a group of Republican lawmakers and referred to several state House committees. If passed, it would require principals to verify in writing that a student had recited the following oath before they were allowed to graduate, beginning in the 2013-2014 school year:

I, _________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

The oath — similar to the one taken by government leaders, military members and new U.S. citizens — ends with the words “so help me God,” which could run afoul of the First Amendment, the Phoenix Business Journal noted:

Jehovah’s witnesses, some Muslims and pacifist Quakers have in the past challenged loyalty oaths imposed by the federal government and other agencies, saying they conflict with their beliefs and religious professions. Similarly, some Arizona students could challenge the proposed high school oath as a violation of their religious liberties and freedom of expression.

The legislation’s sponsor, first-time lawmaker Rep. Bob Thorpe, told Current the idea for it came from a campaign event and from constituents who said they were concerned about patriotism and the Constitution.

“The reason behind this is meant to be a positive experience, not a negative experience,” Thorpe said.

He disputed the notion that the bill is unconstitutional, saying the First Amendment prohibits Congress, not state legislatures, from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion” or “abridging the freedom of speech.” The bill doesn’t stop students from speaking out, he said.

“The idea that there’s something evil about taking this oath seems to be a pretty ineffective argument,” Thorpe said. “When you think about all the areas where people take this oath voluntarily.”

Thorpe said he was planning to offer an amendment to the bill making the oath optional instead of mandatory.

So folks….what’s your opinion about this? Fire Away – Inquiring Minds Want to Know!

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  1. My first impression is that is not a good idea. They’re saying in order to get your diploma you have swear the Oath. If you don’t, you don’t get your diploma. Seems coercive to me. I’d like to know more about the genesis of the bill and the rationale behind it.

    • Yes Michael your right an oath like this should not be taken lightly. Especially if your swearing to G-d. If you take an oath like this you better be prepared to put your SIX on the line. Its a binding oath for the rest of your life. Remember “Let your yeahs be yeahs and your nays be nays.”

  2. Why a “loyalty oath” is required simply to graduate high school is beyond me. Even leaving out the references to God, you shouldn’t be required to recite any sort of oath to graduate. What the hell does this have to do with high school or education? If you join the military or Congress, that’s fine but these kids are simply getting a diploma they’ve earned. No political oath should be required.

    The funniest part is that the oath itself includes “that I take this obligation freely” which of course they aren’t. It should say “that I take this obligation because I’m required to.

    It’s a silly bill and I seriously doubt the bill would hold up under the scrutiny of the courts.

  3. bluffcreek1967 says:

    I understand the intention behind the bill, but I DON’T approve of it. It will never fly in light of our current courts, and it will be seen as a violation of the First Amendment. Moreover, I can understand police officers, military personnel and federal authorities taking such an oath, but is this really required of our high school students?

    But more than that, I see it as another intrusion on the part of government in our lives – albeit perhaps a well-intentioned one. I’m sick of the government sticking their fat necks in my life, and this is just another example. Would we conservatives accept it if some liberal Democrat Representative tried to get a bill legislated that required those same high school students to swear an oath to Barack Obama, a liberal political policy or some governmental entity? Of course not! Yes, I know there is a difference between the Constitution and those things, but the point remains that swearing an oath to the Constitution should be reserved for people in unique positions and with unique authority.

    All of this has the potential of abuse, and I’m much too suspicious of far-reaching governmental legislations – including those with the best of intentions such as this one.

    • Personally I think you’ve made a good case for not being happy with that particular Az bill…

      I would think that growing up as an American citizen one would naturally feel a ‘skeptical‘ loyalty to our country but things seem odd, very odd right now…

  4. America First says:

    Dumb idea introduced for political grandstanding. If a teen is forced to swear an oath they will just resent the object of mandatory devotion.I would much rather they be required to recite or paraphrase the first ten ammendments.

    • “The first ten amendments.”

      Good start, I don’t think it does not go far enough. It’s a heck of a lot easier to learn a one sentence description of the articles and the amendments that a trig or algebra class.

      –but a good start.

  5. Some of our Legislators in Arizona are as sharp as a stick a mud and twice as dumb. They may find this patriotic or whatever but fascism exists on both sides of the isle, mostly on the Liberal Progressive side but we get our share of right wing nut jobs here and they usually end up causing Republicans a big embarrassment and a House or Senate seat. I would say to this man to spend more time on important issues and stop grandstanding and making a complete ass of yourself and your party. Thankfully the legislature does not meet for a full year and I wished it was every other year like Texas. I offer an apology to all out there, this man in no way represents mainstream Arizonans or Republicans in this state. Given the chance I would kick his soapbox out from under him, its a no brainer, he is an idiot!

    • I am an idiot. I understand the emotions and the concept of what Rep Thorpe wants to do. I see what concerns him and I recognize that, in a border state it is tougher than in the loudmouth do nothing middle American states with illegal populations of less than 1% to feel that way.

      Also, maybe, just maybe, educated kids may be less likely to join the knockout punch game. Maybe if they understood the ten amendments they may have a different feel for how they are violating someone elses freedom and rights.

      I am an idiot. I believe I understand the representative’s intent and I know it is for the good of the community, and Arizona.

      • misterbill, your not an idiot, however the oath should be taught to students in a US Civics class, something that many schools dropped as a class. Many HS graduates are legal foreign students, this would just embarrass them.

  6. Even in the USSR, people were not made to join the Communist Party. It was something you did out of free will. You cannot COMPEL someone to love you, or COMPEL someone to be trustworthy. It is the same with patriotism. I say NO to this, as it is completely beside the point. And that is that you WANT people to defend the Constitution with every fiber of their being because THEY think it something WORTH defending.

    • As a matter of fact, the bulk of Soviet citizens couldn’t join. Membership in the Communist party never exceeded around 10% of the population of the Soviet Union. Extending membership to the few or the many was what caused the split between Lenin and Martov prior to the revolution. The party bosses wanted to keep the membership elite so the best of whatever would go to ‘comrades of proven worth’ – meaning themselves. Almost every citizen wanted party membership because of the benefits, not necessarily because they believed in Marxism-Leninism. But I do see your point.

      • Thanks Snake…just learned some more history.

        Much appreciated. ~

        • Snake Oiler says:

          Well, I try. Russian history is fascinating. Martov was sort of prophetic, judging by what he said in the last part of this excerpt. Applicable to Obama supporters, too…

          When the Bolsheviks came to power as a result of the October Revolution in 1917, Martov became politically marginalised. This is best exemplified by Trotsky’s comment to him and other party members as they left the first meeting of the council of Soviets after October 25, 1917 in disgust at the way in which the Bolsheviks had seized political power: “You are pitiful isolated individuals; you are bankrupts; your role is played out. Go where you belong from now on — into the dustbin of history!”. Martov silently walked away without looking back. He paused at the exit seeing a young Bolshevik worker wearing a black shirt with a broad leather belt, standing in the shadow of the portico. The young man turned on Martov with unconcealed bitterness: ‘And we amongst ourselves had thought, Martov would at least remain with us.’ Martov stopped and with a characteristic movement tossed up his head to emphasize his reply: ‘One day you will understand the crime in which you are taking part.’ Waving his hand wearily he left the hall

          • Snake, I almost mentioned Dear Leader in your last post before this one.

            Chin up and nose in the air is exactly what we see from Dear Leader…his followers as well in the respect of the results of what he promised his believers that he would deliver.

            Dear Leader may be ending the end of his rope in more ways than one too. – Then again, it’ll be somebody else’s fault…starting with Bush etc etc….the msm will ensure that.


      • Good input Snake.

    • Yet, everyday in school the youth of America is being taught the other side of that loyalty. I guess you are happy that it is our fault that the Japanese were forced to go to war with us, that we are horrible for going to Vietnam, Korea and all the like,. We killed Indians, they never killed us.

      Where better for kids to learn the UNVARNISHED truth t5han is school. We would not have to do it if we had not had progressives take over the hearts and minds of our kids. I see it in my son and friends.

      As explained elsewhere in this issue, Communist party membership was limited to a small part of the Russian populace. It is all part of the move to communism. The goodies got shared amongst party members. They were not to be shared with the proletariat.

  7. Email Address: bthorpe@azleg.gov

    Here is his email address, send him a reply to this stupidity.

    • Pass this email address around, he really needs to hear from Conservatives. This hurts all of us.

    • Michael,

      My email has been sent… thanks!!!

      My opinion… get stinking government out of our faces.

      You can read my thoughts below on this matter.

  8. BT,

    Didn’t mind taking an oath to defend the United States when entering the military, but forcing students to take an oath to defend the Constitution will only bring about lawsuits.

    Hopefully every student who graduates realizes that the Constitution is what has set America apart from the rest of the world… sadly however, liberals and our current disaster in the White House would like to shred the Constitution along with stomping on our flag.

  9. Would it make a difference to any of you if Thorpe makes this ‘optional’ instead of a ‘mandate’ to those involved or not? – He says that’s what he’s amending the bill to br at the end of the report in the blog post.

    Just curious. ~

    • I would strongly approve if it was optional… if I was a student graduating today, I would most likely take this oath… then again, I love America.

      Btw… I overlooked that last sentence.

      • Thanks Paul…that’s kind of why I mentioned this in the blog post at the beginning of it, third sentence, I think it was:

        “Make sure and read to the end to see where he’s going to amend his bill as well.”

        Anyway….that’s where it made a mighty big difference to me and my feelings about all of this.

    • He is trying to make it an option, but we have many more pressing issues than that and to give Liberals something to T off on is just stupid. Thanks all for responding to him. Might wake him up.

      • You may be right…but, keep in mind progressive/libs T-Off on anything…even if they have to make up the facts. Just wait until they call this ‘RACIST’ just like everything else they do.

        I could care less about living in the shadow of what libs might do and how they might react…that’s exactly what the cowardly repubs we have in congress do and have done all my life.

        If you belief in something stand for, it not don’t. But don’t give a second thought to what the friggin’ libs might do and how they might react. – SCREW THEM SIDEWAYS for all I care.

        Just my rant for now. ~

    • It’s good to know our legislators are tackling the tough issue.

  10. Yes, they should say the Oath. They live here, don’t they?

  11. bigtimer’
    I have mixed feelings about this, I believe a detailed test on us government mandatory to be passed would be better,

    • Good idea…but you’d think that should have already occurred to be qualified to graduate in the first place.

      What a mess everything is in across this land. ~

      Btw…it wasn’t okay with me, until I read this proposal will be optional to all if the amendment is passed…so it’s one’s own choice.

    • ga steve–

      If you think that would work, it would be a great idea. The problem we have today is because, in our day, we were taught a lot of that story. They reach the Howard Zinn version of history today and how awful America has been to the world.

      And while I agree with you, I present this potential problem, what would be the consequences of failing the test??

  12. majorityofone says:

    This is a bad idea. A coerced oath will not engender any loyalty to the Constitution nor are all people in that age group mature enough to realize the seriousness of taking such an oath.

    Why would you need a bill making it optional? If I decide to take an oath, I certainly don’t need the permission of the government to do it.


    Itsa great idea and not only that but they need to bring back requiring 8th Grade students to read and know the realy meaning of the U.S. CONSTITUTION instead of this PLEDGE TO THE EARTH poppycock

    • Good point Spur…what they teach now in many respects is nothing but Indoctrination 101. Your point is well made about global warming, in the meantime they twist and turn, or all but forget the constitution etc….intentionally.

    • Agreed!!!

  14. Cooter Brown says:

    After reading some of the comments I would like to ask every one of you who thinks having high school kids swearing an oath to up hold the Constitution is a bad deal. What in the HELL are you thinking. It’s this attitude that we allow God and prayer taken out of our schools because it offend a few. I could go on for hours but guys it’s a way to stand up and support the Consitution and teach the youth of this nation respect for our country. Hell yea I like the idea and several times in my life i have sworn an oath to up hold the Consitution and give my life if needed for this country. So man up and stand up because what has been going on in our schools for the last 40 years AIN’T WORKING!!!!!!

    • Hey Cooter…

      Amen to what you just said. You hit the nail on every single head on what’s wrong with this country and our school system via the unions and the fed. govt. taking over instead of it being up to states being in control. – The results of that have been obvious of that for decades now.

    • Cooter Just what I said in my posts. I am with you on this.

      It took 40 years to get this way, do we have 40 years to straighten it out?? I say no, not by far.

      And just for the record, I am in favor of 2 years of service to the country from each young person.

      • misterb…

        I also agree with your last thought posted too. Now, more than ever I think it should be a must….but that’s just me.

        We have nothing but clueless, spoiled, ungrateful heads full of mush across this nation…something has to wake them up! – Before it’s too late.

  15. Rides A Pale Horse says:

    Those of us who took “the oath” many years ago and some here that took it recently know exactly what we were getting into (well most of us anyway). These are high school kids fer chrissakes. The last thing on their minds is taking some oath that in reality means nothing more than another hurdle to overcome to graduate Some will go on after graduation to take the oath in earnest others won’t.

    Personally, I would rather a course in the Constitution be taught and a grade of at least B+ be attained for graduation.

    Taking a loyalty oath smacks of something oblowme would do.


    Not in favor.

    Wouldn’t be prudent.

    • …and if it’s optional, does that not make a difference?

      Just curious my friend…nothing more.

      • Rides A Pale Horse says:

        If the oath was optional?

        • Right…that’s what Thorpe is amending his bill to. – It’s in the blog post itself…in case you missed that point. 😉

          • Rides A Pale Horse says:

            Nope, didn’t miss that point at all. Just don’t like the idea. The oath as described is way too close to the oath we take in service to our country.

            Maybe some of those kids aren’t going to go into service to their country, maybe some will not.

            If they don’t have any education as to what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights actually ARE, which is most likely, it would be a false oath.

            An oath is not to be taken lightly. An oath has no expiration date. It is for life. If that oath is even voluntary taken because of peer pressure then once again it is a false oath and it suggests that an oath is not to be taken seriously and can be broken as soon as the school door closes behind them on their way out.

            “Yeah, I had to take this stupid oath to graduate but I have no idea what it means.” “What the heck is a Constitution anyway?”


            “I opted out of taking that stupid oath.” “What the heck is a Constitution anyway?”

            Once again, my position is EDUCATION IS THE KEY. In ANY endeavor.

          • @Rides a Pale

            “Once again, my position is EDUCATION IS THE KEY. In ANY endeavor.”

            As in another post here, I am in agreement with your concept.

            BUT–Why are we having to start from square 1?? How will you enforce it? It has already been “unenforced” so to speak, since I was in school. I will grant you that I could not recite the entire Constitution nor ALL of the amendments, but I sure knew a lot of it and the concepts were deep set in me. It was normal for many of us to serve a short term in the military.

          • Rides A Pale Horse says:

            misterbill, I am going to assume that you and I are reasonably close in age so, with that said, you and I were lucky enough to have been educated in schools that placed actual education above social engineering.

            None of us can recite the Constitution and Bill of Rights ver batim but we DO have a working knowledge of it and our history and what they stand for.

            From what I have seen of the “education” system in this country, it is sorely lacking in teaching the basics and preparing students for what lies ahead after graduation. Sure, they can put a condom on a banana, can tell you about the evils of fossil fuels and how we should be more “tolerant” of the things that annoy or offend us but when it comes to the history of this country,what is taught is revisionist if taught at all.

            I have two nephews that just started high school and some of the stories they have told me about what is “taught” would make your hair fall out. It was when they told me that their teacher said that the real founding fathers were the native American indians that I knew it was up to me. With that information I decided that someone in their lives had better set them straight, and by the time the system got around to the Constitution, which was just last year, they were so far ahead of their class that they were able to present history about the Constitution that even their teacher didn’t know.

            You asked “why do we have to start from square 1?” “How would you enforce it?”

            Since, in my opinion, the education system is more interested in indoctrination rather than education, I don’t know that there IS an answer to either question. My point was to make study of the founding documents and non-revisionist American history required subjects to graduate. So, even if the student doesn’t maintain at least a B+ in the class, he/she has at least been exposed to it and have some working knowledge of them.

            So, it comes down to us as parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. that have had an education to pass on what we have learned, and instill a sense of curiosity and show them how to research on their own to find the truth about our history and to question and challenge teachers when BS is being “taught”.

            Yes,taking on that job will get you called into parent teacher conferences (as I have been on several occasions) because your grandson/daughter, son, nephew etc. is questioning or challenging the establishment curriculum and are said to “think they are smarter than the teacher”, which in some cases, they ARE.

            I still say that taking an oath to something one knows nothing about or believes in, is a false oath and not worth the time it takes to recite it and making it a requirement for graduation smacks of totalitarian behavior.

            I apologize for this being so long winded but I thought I needed to clarify my position and I can rarely express myself in less than two thousand words. :)

            And I thank you for your indulgence.

          • @rides

            Not long winded at all. Well written, good thoughts.

            Yes, it does comes down to us, the citizens. Then that begs the question “why?”. I am agreeing with you not debating your point–and, as a parent and a grandparent, I never sat in one of my descendants history classes- more’s the pity. I trusted the system to be proud of our nation and to pass that pride on. They are not and do not. That is not a broad brush condemnation of every teacher. They do not select texts nor set the standard. For some of them, the only recourse is to no longer teach and that is a shame.

            –now here comes the big statement and question– I honestly believe we parents are not going to be able to get it done, unless it is done through the system and by those in whose day our children spend the most time learning. Of course, I could be wrong, but I have a 26 year old back at home who is a product of a Georgia school system. Any issue from slavery through illegal immigration is ingrained in him and his friends, the few who discuss the issues, it is white , conservatives who are the villains. MY son and one of his friends are convinced I am a racist because my feelings about illegal immigration are translated by them to be a dislike of Hispanic people.

            They are wrong, but they haven’t a clue about economic matters and–IT IS EASIER to accuse someone of racism than to learn the facts.

            I do not totally agree with you about a false oath. We have people join our military, who say the oath without and ounce of understanding.

            Patriotism should be instilled in our children each day in a learning environment. I remind you , since we are of an age, (I will be 80 on March 4.), of the Hitler youth and how those children turned against their parents and toward the lies fed to them in school. How they turned their parents in if they spoke against the Third Reich.

            So, at the risk of offending you, which I most certainly do not intend, I suggest that by the time your plan, which I like, is effective, we will be a communist country.

            And excuse my long winded post here, but I am a rusty, but, at one time, avid amateur student of history and the parallels between us and the Roman Empire are so much alike as to be hard to accept, since history should have taught our enlightened era a lesson.

            “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” (1905)
            “Reason in Common Sense”, volume 1 of “The Life of Reason”

            “History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”
            Karl Marx

          • Rides A Pale Horse says:


            Please see my reply to you (below) which was unfortunately through my own error not posted below your reply.

      • Rides A Pale Horse says:

        BTW, BT. I downloaded and installed AdBlocker and it didn’t work worth a damn. Still getting that f***king annoying AOL ad at the top.

        So sick of these pricks invading my computer.

        • I don’t know about your computer and mine…but I don’t have that problem. Glad of it. Sorry it ain’t working out for you…no doubt about that.

        • installed adblock plus 2.2.1 Friday–seems to have done the trick. I use Firefox and it is in my add-ons.

        • Rides A Dark Horse,

          I just started getting that stinking bar at the top of my computer a couple of days ago… very annoying. At first it was displaying ads, now it is just a dark bar on my screen.

        • Rides A Pale Horse says:


          It seems as we age (I’m 65, yeah, I know, a whippersnapper) we become more verbose. :)

          However, you ask “why” does it come down to us citizens? Simple answer is because the “education” system is broken and corrupt. We are Americans and we do things others can’t because of our individuality. And true, there are good teachers and they don’t select the curriculum which is the exact reason it becomes imperative that we relatives, mentors etc. take the reins and guide our offspring.

          It is not my intention to offend you either, however, you admitted that you “trusted” the system to be proud of our nation and to pass that pride on” which they did not. And that was even before the system became totally corrupt as it is today. It is when, as with my nephews, the system tries to indoctrinate the young and we see evidence of that indoctrination that we have to step in and correct it.

          You have your reasons for not correcting your sons’ thinking early on and there’s not much you can do about it now. I would never presume to judge your motives.

          You are most certainly correct when you say that patriotism must be instilled on a daily basis in a learning environment but what better learning environment is there than at home with family? Maybe I’ve been blessed with the memories of my uncles wartime experiences. My dad had 6 brothers that served and thank God all came home in one piece. Their stories were at once sometimes heartbreaking but also inspirational. One of my longtime lady friends uncles was on the U.S.S. California at Pearl Harbor, her grandmothers second husband was a survivor of Bastogne, I have two other nephews that are currently serving, one in the 82nd Airborne, the other in the 4th Infantry Div. one of my best friends’ grandfather was an admiral with the Pacific Fleet during WWII and I served as well.

          I took it upon myself to educate my stepson and now my nephews, about accurate history, introduced them to the veterans I know and made sure that they understood the sacrifices it took to create this great country by observing Veterans day, Memorial Day, going to the military cemeteries and participating in the ceremonies and making it a point to have them thank the veterans anytime and anywhere they might encounter them which they now do without any coaching from me. One of the most continuous sources of pride I have is that they both in the last year have been inducted into the Young Marines program. Oo Rah!

          I take no offense to your suggestion that “by the time your plan, which I like, is effective, we will be a communist country” but I most heartily disagree.

          We have many more alternatives to the government school system than we had even 26 years ago. Private schools, charters, home schooling and private universities are only a few of the alternatives we have to choose from.

          When my stepson decided he wanted to go to college after high school, his mother and I told him that we would support him IF he would pursue a degree in something other than arts, ancient languages or minority studies, in other words a degree that he could actually use to earn his own way, that he could turn into cash. He decided on finance and tax law, went to a private university on a full ride scholarship in forensics (debate) and is now working at his moms CPA firm, soon to become a full partner.

          “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,”

          Then it is incumbent upon us that DO remember history to pass on that knowledge to those that will ultimately seize the reins of power and teach them the proper use of that power and that that power ultimately comes from the people.

          “History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”

          Only if we allow it.

          We are Americans. We don’t surrender, we don’t give up. We owe it to our children to be the example. We have been through tougher times than this and have come out better for it each and every time and the best, possibly the only way to continue to do that is through careful, thoughtful, truthful education of our offspring.

          But it really IS up to us, WE, the people, to see that the legacy that our forefathers left us continues, no matter what.

          So help us God.

          “It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parents refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father.” Thomas Jefferson

          • “You have your reasons for not correcting your sons’ thinking early on and there’s not much you can do about it now. I would never presume to judge your motives.”

            That suggests that I was remiss in his education. I do not feel I was. The reason was simple. I did not know they were being brainwashed. He and any of his friends, who discuss it all have the same opinions.

            I can only say that you are far more optimistic than I am. In Germany, it took complete and utter defeat and destruction to implement a better system.

            Cloward Piven strategy has been successful in this administration and unless conservatives split up in teams to fight each of the issue presented to us, we cannot win.

            When you reply to Santayana and Marx comments you offer how to challenge them and do not discuss they are already deeply entrenched in our country.

            However , I do admire your spirit and your thoughts and genuinely hope you are correct and I am wrong.

            Your success with your family is far from a nationwide story and I congratulate you on it. Obama’s administration , each week, challenging the Constitution and accepted by about 50% of our population. I am far from as confident as you.

            A hopeful sign: my grandchildren do not seem to lack for appreciation of our country, when we visit, So, again, you may be right and I, wrong

  16. Frankly, when I read in the first few lines it was something that would piss off the libs, I figured it had to be a good thing. Not real sure most 18 year olds are going to really take it very seriously.

  17. Wouldn’t it be far more prudent to have the teachers take an oath to the Constitution? Methinks it would.

  18. You folks that arent familiar with how the mexkins here in az have tried to take over the schools system in some cities and towns and demand that they teach the [largely hispanic] populations in those schools that the southwest was ‘stolen’ from Mexico and needs to be repopulated with
    those of the chicano persuasion…Lots of hate toward the whites.. It was out of control in Tucson with near riots at school board meetings…finaly our state super of schools put a stop to the hate teaching.. but it still continues just not in formal classes.
    I think it needs to be enacted to find out if those with names that end with A O or Z are really AMERICANS or just Mexican-[and sort of] Americans.

    • Thanks for your important input. What you’re mentioning crossed my mind as well. I, too, have read and watched a lot about what you speak of via Al Gores Amazing internet. – I think this is why some of this matters very much. It should be up to each state to do as they see fit for their state and the problems within it.

  19. Let me ask this– who here wants anyone who would not take an oath to support our Constitution.??

    Argue the point all you want, argue your definition of freedom and First Amendment rights all you want, quote (misquote) Franklin’s statement about liberty versus security all you want– I say and I say strongly, we are in the bad condition we are in because of the opinions that it it should not be required.

    So, we let anyone attend any school, no prayers allowed, evolution vs creation, teach about homosexuality, teach tenets of Marxism, allow students to walk on our lag, but God forbid we should ask those who will be the adult population of their country in about 5-10 years to show their support of our Constitution by taking an oath.

    My personal opinion is if it is rejected, Arizona and the USA is one step farther down the road to destruction.

    I agree with bluffcreek that it will not fly in our courts and I say to you those are the same courts that passed Obamacare. We are done. As St. Isaac Jogues said, turn me, I am cooked on this side.

    Our children will never know, until too late, that freedom is not free!!!

    You go Bob Thorpe.

    Which of you here would refuse to take that oath????

    • Amen misterb…Amen!

      You may or may not have noticed, but I stand with ya in this matter. I knew others would have a different viewpoint, that’s why I posted this. It gives a person a lot to think about if you stop and think about it all in the long run of this nation.

      Btw…if this is made optional in the bill itself, I don’t see what the courts can do about it. It should be the states right to do. – And screw La Raza, the ACLU and all their ilk that will be itching to take this to court.

      • They are using the RINO approach to fixing the country. They refuse to tap the dog’s nose with a newspaper to housebreak it. Then they wonder about the mess on the floor years later.

        Making it optional is a good idea, EXCEPT, what, how are you gong to do about those who refuse to take it? Just like the fairness of Affirmative Action , what reward, what punishment what anything is in store for those who refuse to take the oath??? The RINO attitude is “Oh well, we tried, don’t what to upset the Latino voters or the blacks”. Gee, what are the odds that the ones who will not take the oath may be the same ones who take down the American flag and run up the Mexican flag, among others???

    • misterbill,

      I would take the oath as I did when I entered the Army, but I do not want our students forced to take the oath in order to receive their diploma… get stinking government and all their red tape out of our faces… just give me a government who follows the Constitution and a government willing to send all these stinking illegals back to their home countries and I’ll be happy.

  20. freespeechzone says:

    I like the idea of having graduates reaffirm their support and defense of the Constitution.

    I also want to see schools start the day with the Pledge of Allegiance–it’s my understanding that many do not today.

    Time to rekindle the Patriotism that has been lost under the Democrats and Socialists.

  21. I would like to hear from folks here how you are going to get our youth to understand the Constitution and the Amendments. If an oath is not acceptable to you—I did not say that it would pass a progressive panel of judges, I said acceptable to you —-

    tell me how your would fix the problem.

    • misterbill,

      I’m just sick of laws, laws, and more laws. Last I knew America was the land of the free and taking an oath in order to receive your diploma is crapola in my opinion. As BT made me aware in her post and a last sentence I overlooked or it didn’t sink in, I would be very much in favor of having our graduating classes take a voluntary oath to our country and Constitution if they elected.

      Guess I’m just a little sick of government sticking their noses in our private lives which seems to be at every fork in the road these days.

      • Paul, With respect,
        In Massachusetts in the 50s and 60s one had to pass US History to get a diploma. What is so different about that than knowing the Constitution.? I do not know if that is required anymore, but if it isn’t, why isn’t it? In those days the Constitution was part of US History and the Declaration, the Missouri Compromise, the Revolutionary and Civil Wars,among many subjects,. That instilled in me, and I am sure most others, a respect for what we had.

        Since that time , our government has passed so many laws that it is impossible to even keep track. That same government, at our expense has created numerous taxpayer funded departments to enforce those laws, many of which yield little, if any , benefit to the citizens (See Kelo , Roe v Wade).

        I did not consider having to pass US history and know a bit about the Constitution a significant burden.Not more than some other subjects, (Please let’s not even think about Trig.)

        Each year since the 60s, the Progressives have been advancing their plan. Look where we are today! You no all the issues, prayer in school, no creche, no flag outside your condo, etc. etc.

        You are a good man. I read your posts here and I alter my first statement–you are a good, conservative man. You have selected one government intrusion , which I perceive as being to the good of America and you have let it be the symbol of government intrusion.

        There are so many other rules, issues, laws in play, I truly wish you had picked another.

        Peace!! Bill

  22. RidinShotgun says:

    I think his heart is in the right place, but this isn’t the way to go about it. To begin with, DO THESE KIDS REALLY KNOW THE CONSTITUTION? if not, why have them swear an oath? Especially when some thinks – he/she – knows – it – all college professor feeds them garbage about the document and what they tell them it really means.

  23. I am closing out for the day-

    A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the Constitution). A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority. A Republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals while democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs (the public good).

    PS BT did you already post this?? I am losing my memory powers a lot lately…


    I grew up in a moderately strict environment where a sense of shame still existed.

    That–all gone, and with it, the sense and the pride of our America.

    • misterb…

      Thank you…and glad you posted that link.

      Btw misterb…you’d better rest up…I just posted my Question of the Day, and it’s about McAMNESTY and illegal immigration. – You know our history about this my dear friend.

      Here we go again! 😉

  24. Mr. Grumpus says:

    Does anyone agree that there could be merit to asking teachers for an oath to the Constitution? Maybe then they could be held accountable for subversive activities, like the NC “teacher” who told a student that it’s illegal to criticize Obama.

  25. Misterbill,

    I certainly think we should teach the Constitution in our schools… after all, without the Constitution, America would not be the shining light on the hill. I really think you and I are on the same page as we both love this great land we call the United States. I’m just so sink and tired of intrusive government and another law/rule thrown into the ring… just get stinking government out of my business and I’ll be very happy.

    Btw… what has government done lately that has been successful. Just heard on the Chris Kobach show tonight (I think it is just local here in Kansas City… Kobach is a Constitutional lawyer fighting against legalizing the dream act or any legalizing of illegals) that illegals received over 90 million tax payers dollars in the last two years because Kathleen Sebelius had no oversight as to where and whom the money (gravy train) was going.

    The system is broken mainly in thanks to our politicians who can’t even take the time to read the bills they are voting on.

    • paul,

      I believe we are 100% together in our love for and appreciation of this great country.

      I totally understand your being upset with government intrusion as am I and almost everyone on this site. I am waiting for Obama to follow Bloomberg’s lead and start telling us what we should and should not eat each day.

      Your last sentence about the Politicians is the nail on the head.

      I couldn’t muck the country up as bad as they if I tried with all my might.

      I comment here from time to time about RINOs. They think conceding and cooperating are the same thing.

  26. Just reading that Rubio said he and Jeb are not in conflict.

    He also said this:
    “The Republican Party will be attract more Hispanics by appealing to “our principles of free enterprise and limited government.”

    Here’ what I think–you will not attract Hispanics to the GOP even if you hang a pinata from your nuts and let them smash it all day.

    • …yeah, and McRINO said today in their presser about their amnesty plan that this was a testimonial to Ted Kennedy, blah blah blah and barf!

  27. For those who might be interested… I received a very nice email from Mr. Thorpe today. He informed me that he generally does not reply to emails outside his state, but because I had noted in my email to him that I was a veteran, he wanted to reply.

    He thanked me for my service to our country, and then went on to explain how the oath to our Constitution would be optional for graduating seniors. He mentioned how almost everyone in government, from the president on down takes an oath to defend our country and support and abide by the Constitution… guess Obama forgot about his oath.

    Anyway, he said he thought it would instill pride in our graduating seniors and set them in the right direction as they embark on their careers and remembering what makes our country special.

    • Paul…

      Wow…thanks so much for sharing that news. Just from my perspective I agree withe him, it sure as heck can’t hurt.

      Anyhow…much appreciated. ~

  28. An oath at end of 4 years of HS does nothing to promote civic virtue and responsible citizenship. Community involvement, good education, effective parenting, and simple wide exposure to the American experience will do more to instill loyalty and positively bind our 18 year olds to our nation than any rote recitation of an oath. A mandatory oath would act as a compulsion of speech, if not conscience. If the lawmaker who proposed this oath is truly concerned about the level of committment our young have to our nation, he should consider not such a cosmetic measure to address it. It’s cynical at heart, as it is just shameless grandstanding by the lawmaker. It’s proposal by a legislator is evidence that we need more thoughtful, committed, and loyal persons in our representative bodies.